4月30日ライブやります・・・・・TRUTH AND ACTUALITY・・・・真理と実際の事実

みなさま
お世話になります

4月30日19時より

https://youtu.be/5c3oJCmr_BM
よろしければ、参加してください

TRUTH AND ACTUALITY・・・真理と実際の事実

クリシュナムルティとデビッド・ボームの対話です。
一見、抽象的、哲学的ですが、実際は日常的です。そしてまた、根底的です。

わかりやすくみなさんと読んでいきたいと思います。

原文はここからダウンロードできます
https://holybooks-lichtenbergpress.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Truth-and-Actuality-by-J-Krishanmurti.pdf

翻訳は大野純一氏から出ています・・「真理の種子」
https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E7%9C%9F%E7%90%86%E3%81%AE%E7%A8%AE%E5%AD%90%E2%80%95%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%8A%E3%83%A0%E3%83%AB%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E5%AF%BE%E8%A9%B1%E9%9B%86-1984%E5%B9%B4-%E5%A4%A7%E9%87%8E-%E7%B4%94%E4%B8%80/dp/B000J738SK


TRUTH AND ACTUALITY INSCRIPTIONS
"What is the relationship between truth and reality? Reality being,
as we said, all the things that thought has put together. Reality
means, the root meaning of that word is, things or thing. And living
in the world of things, which is reality, we want to establish a
relationship with a world which has no things - which is
impossible."
"Actuality means `What is'... Are you facing in yourself what
actually is going on.. You don't take actuality and look at it."
"Man has been concerned throughout the ages to discover or
live in `Truth'."

TRUTH AND ACTUALITY PART I CHAPTER 1
1ST DISCUSSION WITH PROF. DAVID BOHM
BROCKWOOD PARK 18TH MAY 1975
'REALITY, ACTUALITY, TRUTH'
Krishnamurti: I was thinking about the question of what is truth
and what is reality and whether there is any relationship between
the two, or whether they are separate. Are they eternally divorced,
or are they just projections of thought? And if thought didn't
operate, would there be reality? I thought that reality comes from
"res", thing, and that anything that thought operates on, or
fabricates, or reflects about, is reality. And thought, thinking in a
distorted, conditioned manner is illusion, is self-deception, is
distortion. I left it there, because I wanted to let it come rather than
my pursuing it.
Dr Bohm: The question of thought and reality and truth has
occupied philosophers over the ages. It's a very difficult one. It
seems to me that what you say is basically true, but there are a lot
of points that need to be ironed out. One of the questions that arises
is this: if reality is thought, what thought thinks about, what
appears in consciousness, does it go beyond consciousness?
K: Are the contents of consciousness reality ?
Dr B.: That's the question; and can we use thought as equivalent
to consciousness in its basic form ?
K: Yes.
Dr B: I wonder whether, just for the sake of completeness, we
should include in thought also feeling, desire, will and reaction. I
feel we should, if we are exploring the connection between

consciousness, reality and truth.
K: Yes.
Dr B: One of the points I'd like to bring up is: there is thought,
there is our consciousness, and there is the thing of which we are
conscious. And as you have often said, the thought is not the thing.
K: Yes.
Dr B: We have to get it clear, because in some sense the thing
may have some kind of reality independent of thought; we can't go
so far as to deny all that. Or do we go as far as some philosophers,
like Bishop Berkeley, who has said that all is thought? Now I
would like to suggest a possibly useful distinction between that
reality which is largely created by our own thought, or by the
thought of mankind, and that realty which one can regard as
existing independently of this thought. For example, would you say
Nature is real?
K: It is, yes.
Dr B: And it is not just our own thoughts.
K: No, obviously not.
Dr B: The tree, the whole earth, the stars.
K: Of course, the cosmos. Pain is real.
Dr B: Yes. I was thinking the other day, illusion is real, in the
sense that it is really something going on, to a person who is in a
state of illusion.
K: To him it is real.
Dr B: But to us it is also real because his brain is in a certain
state of electrical and chemical movement, and he acts from his
illusion in a real way. K: In a real way, in a distorted way.
Dr B: Distorted but real. Now it occurred to me that one could

say that even the false is real but not true. This might be important.
K: I understand. For instance: is Christ real?
Dr B: He is certainly real in the minds of people who believe in
Him, in the sense we have been discussing.
K: We want to find out the distinction between truth and reality.
We said anything that thought thinks about, whether unreasonably
or reasonably, is a reality. It may be distorted or reasoned clearly, it
is still a reality. That reality, I say, has nothing to do with truth.
Dr B: Yes, but we have to say besides, that in some way reality
involves more than mere thought. There is also the question of
actuality. Is the thing actual? Is its existence an actual fact?
According to the dictionary, the fact means what is actually done,
what actually happens, what is actually perceived.
K: Yes, we must understand what we mean by the fact.
Dr B: The fact is the action that is actually taking place.
Suppose, for example, that you are walking on a dark road and that
you think you s

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